Timothy Francisco for the New York Times

John Forde does not know what made him say it. He had not planned to say it -- not consciously, at least. But clearly it had been lurking in his subconscious for some time.

It popped out of him on an episode of "Mental Engineering," his quirky, low-budget PBS talk show about television commercials and the social significance of advertising. The panelists had just viewed a Buick Century spot in which the car glides silently through a forest while the family inside gazes rapturously through the windows up at the trees. "Do the rich have more friends than the rest of us?" the actor Willem Dafoe intoned in a voiceover. "Are they more deserving of a comfortable seat? Are they more entitled to brake safely on a rainy day?" Leola Johnson, a communications professor with graying dreadlocks, remarked upon the spot's mixture of "class envy and class hatred." Tim Mitchell, a comedian, sputtered: "I don't think people are going to fall for this ad, that somehow Buick's against the rich. I mean, how much does the C.E.O. of Buick make? You know? Yeah, 'Buy the new Buick Commiemobile, the new Buick Proletariat.' "

Mr. Forde, an amiable fellow with a square, jutting chin and a penchant for wearing sport coats and collarless shirts, looked admiringly at his panelists. He was enjoying himself. Still, he wanted to push boundaries, make waves -- geez, he just wanted to know if anyone was watching. So when the camera turned back to him, he blurted it out. "Why," he said, his voice rising with indignation, "does G.M. advertising almost universally suck?"

The question hung there in the air. It bounced off the PBS satellite, beaming into markets like San Francisco, Buffalo, New Orleans -- although, thankfully, not Detroit. Another panelist, Greg Fideler, a writer, shrugged and answered, with suitable absurdity, "Because they kill small children."

The corporate oligarchy did not exactly crumble that day, but it did shiver, however imperceptibly, in the chill wind of voices raised in protest. "Mental Engineering" may be the only television show ever to take aim at big business in the vast, gushy spot where it is most vulnerable: advertising. Each episode dissects and deconstructs four broadcast commercials, with Mr. Forde (pronounced FOR-dee) egging on his guests with questions like, "For most Americans, is money the slave or the master?" and, "Do third world citizens see investors as coming to help?"

Not that the panelists need much encouragement. After viewing a 1999 Super Bowl commercial for the job-search service Monster.com, in which children spout lines like, "When I grow up, I want to file all day," and, "I want to claw my way up to middle management," Lisa Disch, a political scientist, commented: "When I saw this commercial, I thought, 'Wow! Unions are taking out ads!' " At a time when the line between mass entertainment and the advertising that supports it is blurred almost beyond recognition, "Mental Engineering" could not be more relevant. Interview a few of the show's participants, and sooner or later a conversation leads to Noam Chomsky. "There's a real political dimension to the show," Mr. Forde said. "We're trying to get people to think about themselves as citizens."

The political element, though, is not always explicit. The show's more obvious goal is to untangle the convoluted social imagery that advertising projects. Is the lonely-heart woman in the soft drink ad really suggesting that Diet Coke can take the place of sex? If the life insurance commercial is actually about a man dying and leaving his children as orphans, why is the family romping on a beach? "I look for a really strong subtext," Mr. Forde said. "If the whole point of the segment is to critique the commercial, then we've missed it. I want to talk about the meaning, the message it sends to adolescent girls, to elderly people or poor people."

"Mental Engineering" is not afraid to be brainy, even (gasp) academic. "There's definitely emotion and identity bound up in our purchases," said a panelist, Chris Vigliaturo, who is a computer programmer. "And the deeper motivations psychologists talk about -- sex and death -- are very effective at getting people's attention. So besides keeping corporate organizations honest, thinking about advertising invites us to unwind our own puritanism."

If "Mental Engineering" is such a brilliant idea -- "Politically Incorrect" meets Super Bowl morning-after water cooler chat -- then why haven't you seen it?

Mr. Forde, 41, a member of Mensa with degrees in philosophy and psychology, started "Mental Engineering" in 1998 as a St. Paul cable access show. He had no previous television experience; he had driven a bus, made pizza and worked as an orderly in a hospital senile ward. But he had big ideas. After a stint as a radio station intern, he decided to use some gift money from his parents to produce his own show. Last year he began pitching it to public television, and through painstaking station-by-station networking, he landed on some 50 PBS affiliates. "If there's ever been a show that screamed noncommercial television, it's this one," said Bill Hanley, the executive vice president for content at KTCA in St. Paul. "It's thoughtful, it's fun, and it deals with a subject most commercial folks wouldn't touch with a 10-foot pole."

But even PBS, which gets corporate financing from, among many others, General Motors, is treating the show in a gingerly way. Major markets like New York, Boston and Atlanta have not put it on. A Los Angeles station ran episodes in a two-week burst, then never showed the program again. "PBS doesn't return my phone calls," Mr. Forde said. Mr. Hanley, whose KTCA was the first affiliate to climb on board, denies that PBS has a problem with the show's anticorporate content. "You ever listen to 'Car Talk' on public radio?" he asked. "They regularly say that General Motors cars suck, and apparently public radio has survived. Most big companies understand how to take a little criticism. If they were to beat up on public television over something like that, it would really be sad."

Mr. Forde, who is producing each episode on a minuscule $4,000 to $5,000 budget, relishes his David versus Goliath stance. "If we get sued," he said, "they can't engage us on the legal front without also engaging us on the public relations front. I look forward to instructing them in the art of public relations jujitsu." Mr. Forde actually tapes the ads himself off commercial TV, and he claims he has "two written legal opinions from eminent law firms" that say he is free to use the material because it is for a nonprofit educational purpose. In other words, he is not profiting, so why should anyone mind?

nd, in fact, the advertising community is not as ruffled as one might suspect. "I suppose it's a compliment to those of us who make advertising our careers," said Edward Boches, the creative director at Mullen Advertising, which produced the Monster.com spot. "It sort of legitimizes it as an entertainment art form."

Over at G.M., people are a little less charitable. "They've constructed a panel of quote 'experts' -- people who are there to critique and scrutinize the work, not react to it in a natural consumer environment," said Tom Jump, the director of promotions and marketing for Buick. "I don't think it reflects the real world. What's more interesting to us is, how do our consumers respond when they're in the market for a car?"

Mr. Jump is unintentionally making the same point as Mr. Forde: advertisers don't want you to think, and "Mental Engineering" does. Mr. Forde believes his show, which was nominated in February for a Peabody Award, has enormous potential. "I think we're poised to be as big as 'Politically Incorrect' in a year or two," he crowed. His supporters are more realistic. "I don't think it will ever find a venue in commercial culture," Leola Johnson said with a laugh. She compared it to another cult show that began on Minnesota public access. "The sort of thing 'Mystery Science Theater 3000' did is a real possibility."

But "Mental Engineering" is looking strong for its new season. Mr. Forde has just begun taping 13 new episodes, which will be broadcast on his PBS affiliates starting in May. He has just one tiny problem: money. "Mental Engineering" currently has a corporate underwriter, a company called Arnan.com. -- although calling it a "corporate underwriter" may be an overstatement. "Arnan is my friend Bill," Mr. Forde said. "He is an information technology engineer and M.B.A. He gave us a tiny amount of money and an ocean of technical support."

The show's Web site, mentalengineering.com, is not coy about Mr. Forde's desire to land a real corporate sponsor: "When you underwrite 'Mental Engineering,' your company will be perceived just like the show: smart, honest and fun. Exactly the kind of people the world wants to do business with."

The language is eerily familiar: it sounds like . . . an ad. But Mr. Forde never claimed to be immune to the advertising he pillories. And he realizes that his show has one other thing in common with advertising: free speech. "Even if public TV doesn't want us, we can video-stream," he said, ever the entrepreneur. "It's like porn or hate speech: there's nothing anybody can do to stop us."

Back To What They're Saying